Computer benchmark and Overclock discussion/help

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[rip|mrkavanagh]

bonuspoints thread got me interested in seeing where my recently built pc measures seeing how I have only used Futuremark to benchmark it.


I was wondering if some gurus could look over my Sisoft Sandra reports and help me learn how to get the most out of my hardware. My report is attached.

I have noticed that just by using the Asus TurboV software overclocking solution I can go from 48 GFLOPS to 50.26 GFLOPS with only 14% OC...is that good?

I have also attached my nvidia log that was created while watching Tron Legacy in 1080p using Media Player Classic using only GPU decoding.

[rip|bonuspoints]

well, I looked at the reports and I really think it comes down to your processor. It can only do so much as far as number crunching. I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish but in the end these benchmarks are just numbers. To me I look for more real-life scenarios like does it play my games with out jerky stuttering or crashing, can I watch movies and use trick play without the system hicupping, and how fast I can download and surf the internet. If I can do these, then regardless of the numbers or hardware type its good enough.

From our conversations it sounds like you know some about overclocking. I would ditch the software overclock and teach yourself how to manually tweak the bios settings to get the most out of it. Now I know this link is related to intel chipsets but hopefully once you read it you get the bigger picture of everything tied together and apply it to your own system.

http://www.techreaction.net/2010/09/07/3-step-overclocking-guide-bloomfield-and-gulftown/

Why not push the CPU and GPU further. Invest in some better cooling. Because you have a single vid card, putting the CPU and GPU on a single water loop would be ideal.

-my 2 cents

[rip|mrkavanagh]

Thanks for the compliment but I will never know everything.

What I am looking for is if I have everything configured right. I have been running the PC with just the 3 fans that came with it. Over the weekend I installed 2 multi-speed 80mm fans on the side of the case and one 120mm on the bottom. I would like to install a 80mm fan on the GPU rentintion bracket and one on the back side of the motherboard(see pictures).

This is what I am achieving right now and I am happy with:

I can download at a constant rate 1.5MegaByte/s (1.5mega/bit), I am happy with that.
I can playback full 1080p with DTS digital audio output with only using 33% of my GPU and minimal CPU usage at 25fps.
I can run a 3 mechanical disk Raid0 with good throughput.
I honestly haven't booted up a game since reinstalling the OS and building the RAID.

These are my questions:

Why is my 3dMARK 11 score so low, its only like 3000

Why is 1 pair of my memory running at different timings than the other pair even though they are all running at the same frequency? Is it because I set the frequency target in the bios and timings to "Auto"?

Since I have 16gb of memory should I be running it in "Ganged" or "Unganged" mode?


What is a good all around system monitoring program? Nvidia Performance monitor is only good for reporting the GPU information and doesn't show the correct temps for the CPU and motherboard. Asus Probe II only shows mobo and cpu info. My ultimate goal is to have max cooling capacity, but for it to only be used when CPU, GPU, or MOBO temps reach a certain level. I don't want a Jet engine sitting in my living room and I don't want to go the water cooling route.

What is the PWM_FAN header for?

Is there a way to configure all fans to be system controlled?

My goal is an automated cooled pc that doesn't sound like a jet and does not contain any liquid (LOL).

I plan on upgrading my PSU and getting this one because I like the modular idea http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817152043

It is my intent to buy a second GTX 460 soon.








 

 

[rip|bonuspoints]

Why is my 3dMARK 11 score so low, its only like 3000?

Probably a couple reasons.
1. This is a 460 GTX and not a 480 GTX. The smaller the series usually means lesser memory, bandwidth, and overall calculations. The same can be said for GT series vs the GTX series. The bigger the better and in short thats what 3dmark uses to compare.
2. It was brought to my attention while building my rig that you can cheat 3dmarks scores by turning off hyper threading (intel chips). There has to be a equivalent to AMD but it's been a while since I've worked on a AMD CPU and I dont know what they call it.

3d video and graphics require a ton of bandwidth from the CPU. If the CPU is too slow it will bottleneck the GPU. I dont think this is your problem though. Adding another 460GTX for SLI will help.

Why is 1 pair of my memory running at different timings than the other pair even though they are all running at the same frequency? Is it because I set the frequency target in the bios and timings to "Auto"?

They are probably not linked correctly in the bios settings. is this a dual channel kit or a triple channel kit? Linking them as a 1:1 ratio will usually fix this unless there is a issue on the motherboard itself.

Since I have 16gb of memory should I be running it in "Ganged" or "Unganged" mode?

I would assume ganged if its dual or triple channel kit. This might relate to the previous question.

What is a good all around system monitoring program? Nvidia Performance monitor is only good for reporting the GPU information and doesn't show the correct temps for the CPU and motherboard. Asus Probe II only shows mobo and cpu info. My ultimate goal is to have max cooling capacity, but for it to only be used when CPU, GPU, or MOBO temps reach a certain level. I don't want a Jet engine sitting in my living room and I don't want to go the water cooling route.

I only use 2 programs. Realtemp for CPU temps and EVGA precision to monitor GPU temps. EVGA precision works on all Nvidia video cards and will also allow you to force the onboard fan to higher settings.

What is the PWM_FAN header for?

PWM stands for power management. So you can plug your fans directly into the motherboard for more control of your fans ie. RPM speeds and temp monitoring. Its easy to tell if the fan has temp monitoring. These fans are a small 4 pin (Not the 4 pin 12v molex) and usually have a blue wire.

Is there a way to configure all fans to be system controlled?

Ideally you want control of the fans not the system/auto. Buy a fan controller. You will be able to force the fans to their max rpm setting or if that to much you can lower it. It is capable of doing this by sending a certain voltage to the fan. 12v = full speed, 7v half speed, 5v low speed. But you see thats the catch if you want extreme cooling you have to sacrifice sound. Of course there are a lot of decent fans out there that have a good mix of both. I recommend anything under 2000 rpm for you.

I plan on upgrading my PSU and getting this one because I like the modular idea http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817152043

It is my intent to buy a second GTX 460 soon.

Modular PSU's are a great idea and help with cable management. SLI is awesome!

Hope this helps you.

[rip|mrkavanagh]

Thanks for the help

I did some reading and PWM stands for

Pulse-width modulation

Pulse-width modulation (PWM) is a common method of controlling fans. Modern computer motherboard PWM control when used with multi-core CPUs reads data from Digital Temperature Sensors on each core of the CPU.

Unlike the linear methods above that are based on voltage loss, PWM switches the input voltage between (nearly) fully on and fully off. This means there is practically no voltage or power loss and associated heat output. PWM controller can be a relatively small, low-power and cool-running, albeit complex, component that doesn't require heavy duty resistors, diodes or transistors and associated heatsinking.

Should I have plugged my stock AMD cooler into this header instead of the CPU_FAN header?

I have one of these that I tried out on the PWM header and when the PC booted it sounded like it was going to shoot through the ceiling, but slowed down once the pc posted. http://www.ecrater.com/p/7618750/dell-fan-xps-400-cpu-case



I have two sets of this memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145315

Is there a way I can save my Bios settings so you could look over them?

Is 40c good load temp with stock cpu cooler?

[rip|bonuspoints]

Thanks for the help

I did some reading and PWM stands for

Should I have plugged my stock AMD cooler into this header instead of the CPU_FAN header?

I have one of these that I tried out on the PWM header and when the PC booted it sounded like it was going to shoot through the ceiling, but slowed down once the pc posted. http://www.ecrater.com/p/7618750/dell-fan-xps-400-cpu-case



I have two sets of this memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145315

Is there a way I can save my Bios settings so you could look over them?

Is 40c good load temp with stock cpu cooler?

Thanks for correcting me on PWM acronym. Normally I would say CPU fan always goes to CPU fan header. But my motherboard manual says this about both. (Review your manual before changing)

CPU Smart FAN Control <---- This would be CPU Fan Header
Allows you to determine whether to enable the CPU fan speed control function and
-Normal Allows the CPU fan to run at different speeds according to the CPU
 adjust the fan speed with EasyTune based on your system requirements.
 Silent Allows the CPU fan to run at slow speeds.
-Manual Allows you to control the CPU fan speed under the Slope PWM item.
-Disabled Allows the CPU fan to run at full speeds.

Slope PWM <---- This would be PWM Fan Header
 Allows you to control the CPU fan speed. This item is configurable only when CPU is set to Manual. Options are: 0.75 PWM value /oC ~ 2.50 PWM value /oC.

Having both plugged in could confuse your CPU and possibly harm it. Personally I would not do this unless you know it is safe.

OK so your memory is dual channel. If I were you I would try setting the timings manually and see if that corrects the issue, instead of having auto timings. In order for me to help you further I need two things; a link to your motherboard manual /pdf, and you need to find out what the max safe operating temp is of your CPU. Start searching in AMD /and AMD fan forums.

Also it might be beneficial to both of us if we talked in Ventrilo. We can get things done a lot quicker if your looking to overclock. I am available most days after 5:30PM Pacific

[rip|forkev]

I had to give BonusPoints some PROPS for all the help, comments and suggestions.

Kav, I think you owe him a steak dinner for all the help!! 

Enjoyed reading the posts. 

[rip|mrkavanagh]

I had to give BonusPoints some PROPS for all the help, comments and suggestions.

Kav, I think you owe him a steak dinner for all the help!! 

Enjoyed reading the posts. 

i agree!!!

[rip|mrkavanagh]

for some reason i cant get to asus support directory

[rip|bonuspoints]

Memory
Firstly we need to get your ram stable. Make sure your RAM is installed in the right slots on the motherboard. Because you have 2 sets of dual channel there should be 2 sticks of ram per color DIMM. Each DIMM color represents a separate channel for the RAM and they are are usually placed one after another. Example: Darkblue,LightBlue,Darkblue,Lightblue. So two sould go in the Darkblue DIMM's and two would go into the Lightblue DIMM's. Then I need you to manually enter the ram timings in the BIOS and DRAM voltage. Your newegg link above shows:
9-9-9-24
1.5V – 1.65V

In the BIOS set the
DRAM Freq to: 1333
CAS Latency to: 9
RAS to CAS Delay to: 9
RAS PRE TIME to: 9
RAS ACT TIME to: 24

Leave all other settings to auto.

Change the DRAM voltage to 1.65v

Save and exit BIOS Try to boot into Windows and see what happens.


CPU
OK according to this the max temp of that CPU is 71C
http://cpu-data.info/index.php?grp=ADX640WFK42GM&gr=-1

Now I wouldn't recommend a overclock on stock CPU fan. A lot people are successful with it but in my opinion I think your gambling your CPU's life if you do. If you want to do the overclock on stock fan then we can continue. If you now want to buy a after-market cooler then I would also recommend mx4 thermal compound ....simply the best out there. If you do not want to overclock ignore the rest. You also have to consider that overclocking is killing your hardware life. You cannot expect to overclock and have the CPU last 10 years. The main killers are pumping more voltage into it and heat. But overclockers are enthusiasts too. We do it because we can and we want to push every bit of possible power/number cruching ability out of it.

I found the manual for Asus m4n75td
-Page 17 shows that you have to enable the CPU overvoltage jumper if you want to adjust the Vcore in the BIOS. You will need this if you cant get a stable overclock.

I found this comment on toms hardware. Use this as reference. Every CPU is different and because this is stable with these settings doesn't mean your's will be.

"You can go alot farther then 3.2Ghz but you are going about it all wrong. The propus is a locked multiplier chip meaning the Referrence clock/FSB is the main indicator of OC as opposed to the multiplier in Unlocked chips. OC'ing locked multi chips must be done in a process to ensure maximum stable OC.

first thing set everything back to stock. Go to your memory timings and set back one standard(1600 to 1333) or what have you. Start bumping the reference clock(FSB) up 5hmz at a time until you become unstable. My REF/FSB is at 240=3.6Ghz No voltage increases VCORE:AUTO 100% stable with this method. Only once you have found your max with adjusting only the FSB you begin to adjust voltages and other timings such as VCORE/NB VOLT/MEM VOLT/ HT LINK to seek stability with further REF CLOCK/FSB increases."

[rip|forkev]

I think BonusPoints works for N.A.S.A. or at least he stole his new pc from there.

I'm paying BP to help me build a new pc when the time comes 

[rip|bonuspoints]

I would be glad to help too! I love doing this stuff.

[rip|mrkavanagh]

I think BonusPoints works for N.A.S.A. or at least he stole his new pc from there.

I'm paying BP to help me build a new pc when the time comes  

If you want a Gaming PC that can divide by zero and calculate Pi to 5 Trillion Digits then Bonuspoints is your man.

Back on subject

My first order of business is to get my memory set correctly and running in ganged mode. I have attached my CPU-Z chart for you. I want to my 64bit apps to access to as much memory as possible. I have tried what you have mentioned several times and it only seems to set one pair. I will try again and get back to you.

If you look under the Memory category it shows one set of DIMMS are 8200 and one set 10600. :/

Also, why the heck is my PCIe bandwidth running at x8, I have the card in the x16 slot and nothing in the second slot.

thanks for your help

here is the link to corsairs specs
http://www.corsair.com/memory/amd-memory-solutions/phenom-ii/cmx8gx3m2a1333c9.html

[rip|bonuspoints]

Oh man you cant catch a break haha. OK so the memory you keep referring to "ganged and un-ganged". I dont see this option in the online manual. Are you seeing this option in the BIOS? Try both if you haven't. Other settings I am seeing in the manual are the DRAM Driving Configurations. Specifically the one that caught my eye was MEMCLK Drive Strength. Try the different settings and see if that helps. I would play with all these options under DRAM Driving and see if they link your DIMM slots together. I think the main issue is that they are not linking correctly.

If that does not work we need to take a step back. Take out the memory modules and double check the serial numbers to make sure they are 100% the same model. Then plug only a pair in at a time, try both pairs. Maybe you have a bad pair? You need to find out.

For the PCI-e slot. You mentioned you have 2 slots. Try plugging the video card into the other slot and see if that fixes the issue. If not you might need to manually setup some setting in the BIOS to tell it that it is x16.

I dont know how much more I can help if these don't work. You can try calling me and we can walk through each BIOS setting. Otherwise you have to rely on the manufacturer's support.

[rip|mrkavanagh]

You have a PM

I have check model numbers and serial numbers. Model number matches between all sticks of ram. Serial number matches in pairs.

DRAM driving settings is where I thought the setting might be located, but I don't know enough, nor is anything broken so i didnt want to go fiddling.

Upon doing more research this is what I have found:

Ganged vs Unganged

It is amd's version of Nvidia's Locked vs unlocked architecture.

basically allowing you to use your ram in dual channel vs single channel.

Ganged = dual channel mode for ram. All cores get access to 100% of the ram.

unganged = single channel. Each core gets access to a stick of ram.

In theory, the unganged mode is better as each core will get access to data quicker. In theory.

it also alows you to control the clocks indipendantly from eachother.

So I have 16gigs, do i need to run ganged or unganged? I do run some demanding highend 64bit applications that could in theory use as much memory as possible, but can my CPU process information fast enough for an application to make use of it?

The GPU is plugged into PCIe_1_x16 which is closest to the cpu and directed by the manual.

Oh and get this

I have 1 HDMI cable running from my ceiling mounted Projector. It connects to an HDMI 3-way switch located by my entertainment system. My HD Cablebox, PS3, and PC are plugged into the switch. If my pc is off the 3 fans that have led lights get dimly lit. I did some research and it seems that Pin-18 in HDMI carries a 5v current and the HDMI switch has a design flaw allowing the 5v to flow to anything component connected no matter what is selected on the switch. It seems I am not the only one that has stumbled upon this http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=50&topicid=69503